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Topic: What does "Cafeteria Catholic" mean to you? (Read 331 times)

Van
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What does "Cafeteria Catholic" mean to you?
« Thread Started on Jun 23, 2006, 1:34am »

You may have heard of the term "Cafeteria Catholic" — some people think it's derogatory, others think it's merely descriptive; some feel its definition is obvious and right on the money, others think it's too general and inexact; some describe themselves with it proudly, others are secretly ashamed.

When someone mentions "Cafeteria Catholic," what comes to your mind? How does it affect you / apply to you, one way or another?

Van

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Re: What does "Cafeteria Catholic" mean to you?
« Reply #1 on Jul 1, 2006, 1:21am »

hey uncle van, i have never, ever heard that term used before. can you use it in a sentence? =]

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Re: What does "Cafeteria Catholic" mean to you?
« Reply #2 on Jul 1, 2006, 1:26pm »

cafeteria catholic... i've never heard of that term used before, either. but i clicked on the wiki link (duh mike haha) and it made sense. there ARE Catholics out there that select certain parts of the faith to believe. for instance, i know pro-choice Catholics and i know Catholics who abuse substances and premarital sex. but, not to justify them or anything, we're not all perfect, right? so, doesn't that mean it's sorta impossible to be a perfect follower of the Church. i mean, try as we must, but we are sinners.... right?

did i make sense? ugh sorry if i didn't "/

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Van
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Re: What does "Cafeteria Catholic" mean to you?
« Reply #3 on Jul 6, 2006, 4:16am »

Quote:

hey uncle van, i have never, ever heard that term used before. can you use it in a sentence? =]

A "Cafeteria Catholic" (along with the related term "Cafeteria Christianity") refers to those who follow certain doctrines and teachings of the church but not others, much like someone who picks and chooses what food to eat in a cafeteria.

I think the term is actually almost 40 years old; it originated around the time when a number of Catholic families felt the Church's prohibition of birth control was being too strict. Since then its meaning has expanded:

Catholics who practice birth control (whether married or not) [1]
Catholics engaging in premarital sex
Catholics who divorce

But that's not all. It can also refer to those whose beliefs differ selectively:

Catholics who think priests should be able to marry
Catholics who favor ordaining women
Catholics who are pro-choice (whether or not they'd have abortions themselves)
Catholics supporting same-sex marriage (despite being straight themselves)
Catholics supporting the death penalty (though they themselves would not murder)
Catholics supporting the war in Iraq
Traditionalist Catholics who object to altar girls
Catholics objecting to Eucharist given by the hand, or insist that Mass be spoken in Latin

The problem, though, is when you realize what else it can cover:

Missionaries in Africa distributing condoms to prevent the spread of AIDS
Priests who allowed altar girls before the Church allowed altar girls
Catholics who customarily hold hands during the Lord's Prayer
People who believe in one God, believe in Jesus, but have trouble accepting they are the same being
Catholics eating meat on Lenten Fridays
(tricky one) Catholics eating meat on Fridays year-round, thinking you are supposed to abstain, but don't realize that in the US the practice is only recommended and not mandatory.

In general, I've noticed that people who call others Cafeteria Catholics do so as a form of ridicule; but many who call themselves Cafeteria Catholics seem to do so with pride.

Van
[1] Including surgical procedures such as vasectomies and tubal ligations.

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Van
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Re: What does "Cafeteria Catholic" mean to you?
« Reply #4 on Jul 6, 2006, 4:31am »

Quote:

there ARE Catholics out there that select certain parts of the faith to believe. for instance, i know pro-choice Catholics and i know Catholics who abuse substances and premarital sex. but, not to justify them or anything, we're not all perfect, right? so, doesn't that mean it's sorta impossible to be a perfect follower of the Church. i mean, try as we must, but we are sinners.... right?

Good insight. Is there any difference between a "Cafeteria Catholic" and a regular sinner? At what point does ordinary sinning cross the line and become "heresy"? Where would you draw the line?

Van

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Re: What does "Cafeteria Catholic" mean to you?
« Reply #5 on Jul 6, 2006, 3:58pm »

yeah, uhm. i dont think there is a line.

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Re: What does "Cafeteria Catholic" mean to you?
« Reply #6 on Jul 8, 2006, 4:07pm »

well, if there isn't a line, then aren't we all cafeteria Catholics?

i disagree. i think there IS a difference between being a cafeteria Catholic and sinning. as a catechist, i help confirmandi understand the faith more. i'm very pro-life, and i strongly oppose capital punishment and premarital sex. let's say, however, that i fall to sins that may make me look pro-choice, or make me look like i support capital punishment or premarital sex. because i fall to sin doesn't necessarily mean that i support what i do. i think it's possible for someone to be very pro-life, but become so pressured and blind as to have an abortion. likewise, i know it's possible that there are those who preach against premarital sex, but fall to temptation and do it themselves. they're not necessarily cafeteria Catholics, right?

sorry if i didn't make sense.
^i say that a lot. that should be my signature =)

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Van
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Re: What does "Cafeteria Catholic" mean to you?
« Reply #7 on Jul 9, 2006, 6:01am »

Quote:

well, if there isn't a line, then aren't we all cafeteria Catholics?

i disagree. i think there IS a difference between being a cafeteria Catholic and sinning. [...] because i fall to sin doesn't necessarily mean that i support what i do. i think it's possible for someone to be very pro-life, but become so pressured and blind as to have an abortion. likewise, i know it's possible that there are those who preach against premarital sex, but fall to temptation and do it themselves. they're not necessarily cafeteria Catholics, right?

Right. "Cafeteria Catholic" is more synonymous with "unrepentant sinner" rather than being a sinner in general.

Avoiding sin is like coloring a picture in a coloring book: people generally try to stay within the lines but sometimes the colors spill over. When that happens, any of the following could apply:

they admit a mistake then try harder to stay inside the lines;
they say it's too hard to stay in the lines because their crayons are blunt or their artistic skills are lacking;
rather than admit a mistake, they say they meant to cross the lines on purpose;
they feel their version of coloring the picture is better;
they were drawing a completely different picture in the first place.

Cafeteria Catholicism is more closely analogous to the third and fourth reasons.

Even then, a blanket term like "Cafeteria Catholic" doesn't paint the full picture, so to speak. For example, in the coloring book analogy the picture could be very difficult to color, and someone may simply not have enough time to do it all. As a result, that person either concentrates on carefully coloring just the important parts, or does a quick overall crayon job so most of it is done but a little sloppy. Or maybe it's difficult to color because some lines don't make sense; as a result, the person either ignores them or draws new lines so the coloring makes more sense.

In each case, the person is deliberately not coloring the entire picture within the lines given. Classmates catching him will call the teacher, complain this is "cafeteria coloring" and cry, "Confiscate his crayons!" [1]

Jeez, What Would Teacher Do?

Van
[1] I love alliteration, don't you?

(Edited to refine wording and the analogy)

« Last Edit: Jul 9, 2006, 9:18pm by Van »

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Re: What does "Cafeteria Catholic" mean to you?
« Reply #8 on Jul 13, 2006, 2:17pm »

in the coloring book analogy, when you said a person would color only the important parts, who decides what's more important than the other?

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Van
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Re: What does "Cafeteria Catholic" mean to you?
« Reply #9 on Jul 15, 2006, 2:56pm »

Quote:

in the coloring book analogy, when you said a person would color only the important parts, who decides what's more important than the other?

The person doing the coloring. That's what all the fuss seems to be about.

Van

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Re: What does "Cafeteria Catholic" mean to you?
« Reply #10 on Jul 16, 2006, 10:19pm »

in the coloring book analogy, i think Teacher shouldn't take away the student's crayons. i think Teacher should help the student with coloring and understanding how the picture should be colored. likewise, we should help cafeteria Catholics learn to accept the Catholic faith as a whole, not just bits and pieces that they prefer to believe.

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Van
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Re: What does "Cafeteria Catholic" mean to you?
« Reply #11 on Jul 18, 2006, 9:07pm »

Quote:

in the coloring book analogy, i think Teacher shouldn't take away the student's crayons. i think Teacher should help the student with coloring and understanding how the picture should be colored.

Well, Teacher does let the student color on his own, but offers a Guiding Hand to help stay within the lines, and tends to be pretty forgiving overall about honest mistakes. After all, the object is not to punish, but to have the student make pretty pictures.

The classmates, on the other hand, are the ones with a habit of calling the student names, threatening to tell Teacher, and saying the student should get an 'F'.

Quote:

...likewise, we should help cafeteria Catholics learn to accept the Catholic faith as a whole, not just bits and pieces that they prefer to believe.

In general, yes. But there are areas where it's hard to see where the lines should be colored, so to speak, and not all Cafeteria Catholics are picking bits and pieces out of mere laziness or convenience. Deciding to blow off Sunday Mass is one thing, but distributing condoms in AIDS-stricken regions in Africa is another.

Going back in history we find Martin Luther was a Cafeteria Catholic, but that was in response to what he saw was clergy being Cafeteria Catholics. He wanted to pick up what they left behind at the counter.

Let's think about ancient times for a moment. Was Jesus a Cafeteria Jew? Were the Pharisees?

Van

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Raj Derivera
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Re: What does "Cafeteria Catholic" mean to you?
« Reply #12 on Jul 19, 2006, 6:31am »

Good discussion...

i've been too busy to step in, but on a random tuesday (read wednesday) at 4 in the morning i have seemed to find some time to chime in.

there's a lot to address, and i don't think i can get to it all tonight... but we'll see what i can spit out.

So... let's start with a few of MY things (i hope i don't offend):

I used to consider myself a "Cafeteria Catholic" (proudly? that's debateable)
Like Lisa, I believe there is a clear difference between being a sinner... and being a Cafeteria Catholic.
I have had many a conversation with close friends who are/were Cafeteria Catholics some of whom are no longer Catholics. and i think i have a pretty good understanding of the different reasons people choose to be/remain Cafeteria Catholics.
Cafeteria Catholics annoy me. i know. BOLD STATEMENT. but it's not about who they are personally... it's the way they look-at/treat their faith. and hopefully i can elaborate on that in this post. and future posts.
Lastly, i would like to warn, that discussions regarding Cafeteria Catholicism have been known to be dangerous ones. Sooooo with that being said, anything i say here is meant to bring people to a closer union with The Church and is it in no way meant to push people away from The Church. If we disagree, we disagree, but i encourage a continuous and vigilant search for Truth. The Truth.

okay... so... moving on...... let's throw this idea out there...

Many - if not most - Catholics today are Cafeteria Catholics (by definition), whether they identify themselves as so or not

I personally believe that the biggest reason that Cafeteria Catholics even exist, is in a misunderstanding and a lack of knowledge in one's faith. This may not be your case. I know that it was mine. and the case for many. And this isn't said to sound arrogant... or to be c o c k y[1] about the Catholic Church and her teachings. but the statement is made because, the Catholic Church is faithful to Truth. again the one and only Truth.

this addresses the issue Van brought up:

Quote:

Was Jesus a Cafeteria Jew?

The answer i think is... "it doesn't matter". See, although Jesus may have been a Jew, Cafeteria or not... Jesus was and will continually be Truth. and that is who The Church follows. Catholicism is faithful to the ABSOLUTE UNCHANGING TRUTH. Catholicism is faithful to Jesus. We follow Jesus, not Cafeteria Judaism.

Now this is where it gets a little tricky. Well, raj, wouldn't Jesus want to save all the lives suffering from the horrible affliction of AIDs in Africa. Of course he would. And so would I. but i don't think Jesus would be out there performin miracles in which he made thousands of condoms available for use. No, i think he would try and teach people about TRUE love. and heal those who have been unjustly afflicted. I do not think he would give them a way of avoiding disease, in order to continue in sin.

We could sit here and breakdown all the arguments.

Wouldn't Jesus want equality? If so, Why not women priests. Response: We are all equal, but men and women are different, and have different roles.
Wouldn't it be okay to allow abortions in case of rape/incest?
Response: Abortion is inherently evil. why should one (the child) suffer death, because others would be inconvenienced.

we could go on... but that's not the point of this thread. but just looking at these few issues, if you don't truly understand what the Church's teachings are on each issue, it probably seems very closeminded, maybe even ignorant. It is at this point where i feel us as Catholics have to make a choice. We can either stop searching and choose to give up on The Faith and say... "hmm well that seems closeminded and so i won't believe in that" or we can be called to something greater and say, "hmmmm i wonder what the scriptural references are. hmmm i wonder why the Church says this about this subject..."

Martin Luther. He decided to give up on The Faith, and he actually broke away from the Church... denouncing his Catholicism. was he right on some issues. Maybe. Some would say "at least he was honest". At least he didn't call himself Catholic anymore.

Now, that is definitely not what i wish of Cafeteria Catholics. I don't want them to leave the Church. I only hope that Cafeteria Catholics have a burning desire for the Truth, that they don't settle for less, and through that come to a better understanding of the Faith.

and Van... i must say i have never thought of the Coloring within the lines Analogy... although i think it stretches at points... i must profess it paints a pretty picture. [2][3]

I think that's it for now. i'm tired. I hope i didn't offend anyone, and it all comes from love. and a longing for Truth.

"There are not 100 people who hate the Catholic Church; But there are millions who hate what they believe the Catholic Church to be."
- Archbishop Fulton Sheen

[1] i find it somewhat amusing that the automatic filter won't let me use the word "c o c k y"
[2]Gotta love those puns. haha come on it's late/early
[3]How's that for some alliteration.

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Re: What does "Cafeteria Catholic" mean to you?
« Reply #13 on Oct 23, 2007, 2:54am »

I'm a bit late in the game in following this, but...

Quote:

Good insight. Is there any difference between a "Cafeteria Catholic" and a regular sinner? At what point does ordinary sinning cross the line and become "heresy"? Where would you draw the line?

Van

I think part of the essence of all Christian belief is the acknowledgment that, as humans, we are all sinners, and we need the Lord for our sanctification and salvation. Jesus Christ was the sacrificial lamb who atoned for our sins. However, as we all sin, we must recognize our sins and our shortcomings, offer them up to the Lord in repentance for His forgiveness, and try our best to live the way Jesus taught us how to live.

I think in order to deal with Cafeteria Catholicism, we need to actually teach the meaning behind basic Catholic doctrine-- we need to show how they're taught in the Bible and why the religion thinks so. Premarital sex, divorce, adultery-- they are all discussed in length in not only the Hebrew Scriptures and the Gospels, but also the epistles. St. Paul provided beautifully written, sound guidance on how one should live as a Catholic. The issues he tackled thousands of years ago as one of the first key leaders and teachers of the church are very similar to the issues we deal with today (look at Corinth back in the day... that place was a mess!). For example, 1 Corinthians 6: 12-20 and 1 Corinthians 7 are great passages that should be studied and understood in support of basic Catholic beliefs.

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